Darn Thing
The computer's on the fritz again. I can't believe we just paid for a diagnostic, a hard drive and installation, only to have to go through it again. I had a gut feeling we should have bought a new one. Starting a new post cuz it's a pain to scroll down after there's a lot of comments.
64 comments:
Can you be more specific about what opinion your curious about? There was a lot there.
I heard starting tomorrow night we're supposed to get dumped on. Up to a foot. That could change...we'll see!
Do you agree (or disagree) w/ his premise that the acknowledgment of Christmas (such as displays on govt property)of nativity scenes, Christmas trees, etc is...kosher :)
Or that celebratin Christmas is an American tradition, and that other "religious" holidays should receive less (if any) emphasis.
Another question: do you believe that the USA (namely our Constitution) was founded on Christian/Judeo principles?
Kosher as a pickle! Yeah, I don't have a problem with it. I don't have a problem with much, though.
I'm not sure about your second one. Christmas isn't exclusive to America. I think when there's a majority of something, (Christians in America), that naturally a Christian holiday is gonna get a lot of attention. I don't think it should be based on principle necessarily.
Ques. 3: I hear that a lot from conservatives. I don't know that I agree or disagree...I'm not studied at all in that area. But it does make me roll my eyes and say "so what" if that gives you an indication of in what direction that arguement/defense moves me. I think I'm pretty traditional person by nature, but there's also a part of me that feels we can't look to a document 200 years old and pretend that everything in it will apply to our country forever. Times change, people change. The thing's been ammended a few times, right? I think a lot more people had religious beliefs back then.
Just because somethin ain't exclusive to Amer doesn't mean it can't be an Amer tradition (but we agree on this).
Hmmm..yes times change. So, as our population distances itself from religious (Judeo/Christian) principles, would you say we're better or worse off as a nation?
I see. I was putting an emphasis on the word "American" (tradition), when I read it. That's where I read exclusivity into it.
I think in some ways we're better, ie slavery...and in some ways worse. I'm not sure how much that matters, tho. Cuz we can't go back, and we can't make people believe in God. And I understand the desire to make the correlation but I'm not convinced that our different (or worse, if you want) state of the country is a direct result of less religion.
We've also progressed in the area of prejudices and discrimination w/ race and sexual orientation. That's a good thing...and that wasn't happening back in the day.
Alright, as much as I'd like to stay up to hear your wise words, this girl needs her beauty sleep. Tomorrow I'll tell ya what I really think.
gn
Yes, we have progressed in regards to race (bein the only country to fight a civil war over it). The two countries that had the greatest impact endin slavery were us and Britain (both Christian nations).
As far as sexual orientation, we've digressed as we separated more from God. Homosexuality should not be condoned (much less encouraged) It's a destructive, immoral behavior.
Our schools are failing, more marriages are endin in divorce, out of wedlock births are sky rocketin (men aren't takin the responsibility for the kids they father), kids are havin sex at younger ages (promiscuity), violent crimes are up (far more than a century ago). Just turn on the tv and you can see our moral decline.
Stan got it right. Everything that's up is down and what's down is up.
Sorry if I'm drawin distinct (blk & wht) lines here, but it is what it is.
Ohh.. I'm thinkin you'll have a thing or two to say about my last tirade.
gn
Again, you can blame all of this on less religion, and while you might be right to a point, I'm more inclined to think it's a number of things that contribute to our current society. Like modern science...the life expectancy was like, 40 when marriage started...it's harder to stay with someone till you're 90. Or technology...youngsters are far more aware of sex younger due to t.v., internet, etc. Or even nature...kids starting puberty earlier than they used to...yes that can lead to doin things earlier. I realize it doesn't have to, and if there was God in their lives, blah blah blah. Still, it's another variable, and that's my point.
Really? You think we've digressed in regards to homosexuality? I suppose there are people who wish they'd stay in their closets so the rest of us didn't have to think about it. But they're people who can't help who they're attracted to. I can't begrudge them that. Aren't you even a little glad that gay hate crimes have decreased and less than manly boys aren't gettin picked on and called names? That's progress.
Good Morning.
Good mornin.
Any crime against anyone (regardless of their sex orientation) is a bad thing. So no, I'm not pro-pick on the gay kid. But, if I believe that a behavior is wrong, I can do several things: encourage it, ignore it or speak against it.
There is NO physical evidence that biologically kids have sexually matured (or are goin through puberty sooner) due to natural factors; none. If you know of any, please state it.
"youngsters are far more aware of sex younger due to t.v., internet, etc." Exactly my point. Adults (not children) who control these things are responsible for the content that's put out. I think that we would agree that reasonable discretion on what kids are exposed to is the job of adults. The high percentage of homosexuals in top positions of the management of television, for example, is one of the root causes of the promiscuity shown on broadcast tv (and a major reason Christians are portrayed poorly on the tube).
http://www.humana.com/healthwatch/trnscript062100.html
I think there have probably always been homosexuals in top positions in television and movies...again I can't make a direct correlation to the promiscuity. You can't prove that's a causal relationship. Ha! Not "casual", "causal"! That's funny.
http://www.webmd.com/menopause/news/20031114/age-of-menopause-getting-later
I found that, too, but I'm sure you can find something that disagrees with it.
I stand corrected. However, we're both wrong. Girls go through puberty several months sooner than they used to due to, apparently, added weight and environmental factors; and not moral decay or "progress".
I'd say that homosexuals are more promiscuous than heterosexuals.
http://www.bpnews.net/default.asp
Make that
http://bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=17458#
I wasn't calling it progress. I was just trying to give an example of other variables that might contribute to why we have the society we have besides the lack of God.
I know that, was just lookin to use your "progressive" term as much as possible :)
Freakin fog won't lift here. It's a pain, wanta finish up this darn job.
You're gonna have to find me facts about homosexuality that don't come from the Baptist Press. That's like me claiming they're not and siting "The Gay and Lesbian Times".
The research was done by the UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO, hardly a bastion of baptist propaganda.
I'll read it in a sec. Yeller.
I would think promiscuity would have less to do with sex orientation and more to do w/ upbringing and balance in life. I mean that's a stereotype like women being bad drivers. (Be quiet). Even if we want to accept that they are more prom, which is the larger contributing factor? The being gay or being a man? You don't hear much about lesbian escort services or women pickin up women in public restrooms. Sounds like a guy thing. (I think it's cuz guys are always randy..put 2 together and there ya go.) There are prom straight and gay, and monogomous straight and gay..obviously.
Maybe if y'all let em get married they'd be more monogomous.
Who knows.
Gotta go to work..blah.
Have a good day.
Ah ha! Just as I suspected. The study found gay MEN were more promiscuous and that gay women tended to be more relational. So here's my theory. They're not horrible, immoral people. They're horny guys who have access to other horny guys. Straight men tend to be more promiscuous than women, too. And I'll bet that a lot of straight men woulda spent a little more time being promiscuous before they fell in love and settled down.
Another theory I have is that whatever made these fellas gay in the first place, may influence behavior as well. Why not? Say if it's environmental and biological...maybe the environmental part has something to do with how they were raised. How they were treated by their parents. Well then maybe that's why they're not seeking commited realationships because it's a trust issue. You may think I'm really reaching here, but I think it's more likey than just sayin they're immoral people. That's too all incompassing, when there are plenty who are not.
You too!
I can't believe I've missed this convo. Well here's my two cents, not that anyone asked for it.
I believe that a majority of homosexuals are naturally attracted to people of the same sex. I think some have had events in their life which have caused them to abandon the natural order and accept a relationship which is unnatural. But just because some people are born with a natural attraction to the same sex doesn't make it OK to act on that temptation. I'm sometimes attracted to women other than my wife, but if I lust after them, look at pornography or cheat on my wife it is sin. Just because you are naturally inclined to do something, it's not necessarily OK to do it.
Considering the earlier onset of puberty over the past few decades, I believe that it is almost 100% related to our food supply and other chemicals in our environment. The level of hormones in our food supply is astounding. If you give kids testosterone would you expect them to go through puberty earlier? Well, our beef gets Bovine Growth Hormone, so we should be real surprised that our kids are maturing (physically) sooner than in the past.
As far as kids having sex earlier, I think it is part of the Communist War on America, which didn't stop with the end of the Cold War. They infiltrated our Universities, pumping out little liberals. These liberals teach the next generation liberalism. They say; "As long as you don't hurt anyone it's OK" Then the TV says the same thing. Sex is thrown at kids all over the place, and if their parents are not involved (which so few are) then there is no way to combat these ideas.
For you Bush haters out there, you can go to sockandawe.com and play a game where you can throw shoes at Bush. I have to admit, I played it twice. My top score was 10 hits. 10 hits primarily for his 'comment': "I've abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system,"
I said that homosexuality is immoral, not homosexuals are immoral (unless they're bein gay).
Nest makes a great point comparin heterosexual attractions, infidelity, etc. And as far as a communist war on America goes, i'd agree there as well. And it encompasses more than just immoral sexual behavior (art, diversity, education; the list goes on and on).
C/o the "shoe" incident.
I'm no Bush fan. BUT, after the American sacrifice of our soldiers, our tax money and a general shoulderin the responsibility that the world would not in Iraq; I consider that shoe directed at all Americans.
Personally, I've reached the "bottle is full" point w/ the Iraqis. Not to mention the lack of gratitude for our work and sacrifices there, they condemn us. I say SCREW EM!
At this point I'd support a full, immediate w/draw of all troops and aid. Let em kill one another. And when the terrorists take over, we go back w/ nothin but planes and cruise missiles. I'm dead serious about this. I've had it w/ these bastards!
Well, I don't think Nestor's comparison is a fair one to make. Resisting other women isn't as hard when you at least have one at home, that you love and who loves you, waitin for you. You're asking these folks to live lonely lives..I can't do that.
I never thought that "democracy in Iraq" was ever gonna work. I don't think they're cut out for it.
Now they're callin for 6-10 inches tomorrow. Glad I got that veggie tray for Saturday. I bet it'll be pretty tho..thinking kids won't be going in.
My bro just heard he's not gettin sacked in January when they do a lot of Ford layoffs, so that's good. Everything's so depressing right now, yuck.
I don't ask them to do that Linda, God does.
"Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it." (Matthew 19:11-12)
Jesus doesn't say it's easy, and he doesn't even ask anyone to really understand, just accept your lot and obey God's Word.
Actually, I read that several of the Iraqi reporters present apologized to Bush and it WAS an Iraqi reporter who took down the shoe thrower.
I was bein reactionary.
Oh yeah, well we're gettin some heavy fog.
Been watchin clips of it snowin, basically everywhere, cept here.
THAT'S IT! I'm done w/ snow! Scr*w Jack Frost, that b*st*rd!!
You're being reactionary again.
Did Abrams and Bettes push you over the edge? Boy if the snow doesn't keep us indoors the wind will. 20-30 mph? What the heck? I'm glad we're missing that ice, tho. Looks like it's right on the Indiana border. Problem is we have lotsa travel this weekend. I wanna be in Texas now please.
Travelin up there must be tough. Is it snow tires or chains?
Yeah A & B are just alittle too chipper.
I'll touch on N's point: God is a sovereign Lord and altho we don't always understand Him, we always should obey Him.
Yeahbut... there's a lot of people, religions, interpretations, opinions, etc that don't agree on everything in the Bible or even the Bible itself. We've done this already. You all believe it, but that doesn't make it a fact. And your talking about people's lives and the way they live them. I just don't think you can impose your religious ideology on people that don't believe what you believe. Cuz you might be wrong, and not them. And vice versa of course. Like the atheist sign in Washington. Just an idiot. I hope that makes sense.
Imposing religious beliefs is what the Taliban do.
Stating you think something is sinful is not imposing anything on anyone.
The secularist PC crowd continually impose their beliefs (through the courts) on us Christians (regardless as to what people actually vote for). Why not be concerned for the Christians? I mean, just who's imposin what on whom?
I know what you mean reg. the imposing thing..I guess I'd understand better if I understood what ya'll want, or wish would happen regarding the whole gay issue. I get the no marriage, that's clear. So that's it? It seems like you think they shouldn't have sex, and that's what I meant by imposing your views. I dunno. I was gonna let this go, but you chimed in.
Reg. being concerned about Christians..I actually defend religion much more often than I do anything else, believe it or not.
Plus...(had another thought), I thought we were agreed that this country is mostly Christian. Well then one usually doesn't feel the need to step up for the majority. It's the people in the minority that tend to "fight for their rights", etc. For example..good luck to the white male in the work place goin "how come no one's concerned about us?"
Linda, I'm not really concerned about anyone's feelings except God's. I do take people's feelings into consideration, but at the end of the day, I have to stand up for what's right. I don't want to impose my beliefs on other people, even God doesn't do that. God loves people so much, he gives them free will so that they can choose to love Him, or deny that He even exists.
I would support Federal Civil Unions legislation (or state civil unions legislation) as long as Marriage is kept between a man and a woman. I don't think it's right that 'partners' can't see their partner in a hospital or run into other legal roadblocks. Civil Unions would solve that issue.
However, just because I support a persons right to make a sinful choice in their life, doesn't mean that I have to agree with that choice. It also doesn't mean that I don't still love that person. As much as it's cliche, I do like the saying: "Love the sinner, hate the sin."
It makes me feel good knowin you defend people of faith.
I'm ok w/ a contract between two people (partners, siblings, friends, etc) that guarantees the stuff nest mentioned. Just not marriage.
As far as "what else I want": nativity scenes displayed on public prop, the 10 Commandments, school prayer (w/ the option of optin out), etc. I think it would ground us more as a society into a better civic morality.
N: "but at the end of the day, I have to stand up for what's right."
(I know you don't have to agree, I wouldn't expect you to.) But isn't that YOUR interpretation of what God thinks is right? Many may share that view, but ultimately it's what you choose to believe in. I notice you never word things with "I think" or "in my opinion"...but it's exactly that. I can word things all matter of factly too, but it doesn't make the way I see things the "right" way.
As far as your "wants", Reck. I don't know. You could be right.
Coming from where I do, I couldn't help but notice that once we all got dumped into college, the folks that spent their K-12 years in religious schools were on even keel w/ us non religious people morally. We started this convo at Wailer's place. Put it this way..I wasn't real impressed with the effect their religious schools had on them. Besides telling me I was goin to hell. That they were sure of.
Alright, I'm not done w/ you, Nestor. :)
In one paragraph you say,
"I don't want to impose my beliefs on other people,..."
And in the next you say,
"I would support Federal Civil Unions legislation (or state civil unions legislation) as long as Marriage is kept between a man and a woman."
Do you understand why this might sound contradictory to me? The reason you want "marriage" to be kept between man and women is because of your beliefs.
If Nest's beliefs lend him to oppose gay marriage, he's in pretty good company; no society in history (until now) ever wanted it.
Two points: every time bannin gay marriage comes up on a ballet, it passes.
Virtually every time keepin (atleast some kinda) abortion legal comes up on a ballet, it passes.
Now, I'd say that Americans resoundingly "believe" that the institution of marriage is between a man and a woman, and that if a woman chooses an abortion, she should be able to do that.
Seems like case closed to me.
Whether he's in good company or not wasn't my point. Let's just not pretend we're not imposing our beliefs onto other people, that's all.
Nope, just in case this goes somewhere I don't want..It's late, I'm tired, I love ya, and good night.
The majority votin in favor or against something is imposing their beliefs on others, yes. it's called democracy in action. I guess one could look at "laws" and "rules" as an imposition.
When we say to the aspiring nudist, "you must wear clothes in public" that's forcing the view of the majority on them (tho I realize that's not a problem up in the arctic wear you guys live).
When the majority of Americans say, "we want gay marriage and alot of it", I'll shut up about the subject.
Guess that means you won't be shuttin up anytime soon.
"...YOUR interpretation of what God thinks is right?"
Linda, when it comes to homosexuality, God is very clear on it, there's not much of a gray area. I'm pretty sure I've pointed out the Old and New Testament scriptures regarding homosexuality. God is clear that the act of homosexuality is detestable. That doesn't change God's love for homosexuals, but the ACT itself is detestable.
American morality is falling apart, and our society with it. The majority of Americans consider themselves Christians, but we can't talk about God in the public square. Every other religion is OK but the one that most people believe in. The other problem is that 'Christians' stand by and say nothing. They say; "Well, I don't want to make any waves."
If things in America don't change, the country will be destroyed, but there is still hope for Texas. God Bless Texas!
God blessed Texas w/ His own hands,
and
brought down angels from the promised land,
I been sent.. to spread the message,
Mmm..God Bless Texas!
Nestor,
I meant "your" interpretation, because you've chosen to believe Christianity and that everything in the Bible is true and literal. Not every Christian believes that. You'll say they're wrong, and you've a right to that opinion, but it is an opinion.
Reg. you guys feelin like Christianity gets the short end of the stick, I don't. That perspective may vary according to one's starting point. Just the other day, B heard something on t.v. and says, "the Bible this, the Bible that. All I ever hear about is the Bible!" He's not hearin it from me. I think it's talked about plenty.
I HAVE chosen to believe the bible. Belief in God and the bible takes faith, but it is not blind faith. If any person is the research type they can compare the evidence, archaeological and scientific that points to the divine inspiration of the bible. The evidence which supports the divine inspiration of the bible is: 'Beyond a reasonable doubt'. The other way for one to determine if the bible is true is to live out the teachings of the bible and see the change in their life.
"Jesus answered, "My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me. If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own." (John 7:16-17)
"You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart." (Jeremiah 29:13)
When one truly lives out the bible, they will see the positive change in their life. I live in one of the most secular cities in America. We have the largest university in the world, (I think sometimes Ohio St. is bigger, and sometimes UT is bigger, depending on the year) and they teach a whole lot of liberalism there, new age philosophy, etc. It can be hard to fight that indoctrination, but what our campus minister does is just ask people with these grand philosophical beliefs; "How's your life? How's is your belief structure working out for you?" Now I understand that you probably have a great life Linda, you have a great family. Do you think it could be any better? I think it could. Because the best without Jesus isn't as good as the worst with Him. I can tell you from my experience that my marriage was good before I had God. It got great, and it's struggled at times. But it wouldn't be there right now if it wasn't for God. I've seen the change in my life, and it came from seeking God, and believing and living out the bible.
I get that, I believe that people's lives can improve when they incorporate spirituality. Actually, I think that study's been done. I have no issue believing that's true. And of course parts of my life could be better..that goes for everyone.
The thing is, that spirituality isn't contained to only Christianity. I know I've said this before, but people of all faiths find their lives improve when they have faith in their lives.
See I think it's the concept of faith and what it does for people, more that what the faith actually is. And I think it would be difficult to become spiritual with that philosophy swimming around in my head. I know, I know...the bible.
blah blah blah...3rd base.
:)
Here's a view is read about lookin at Christianity that is worth considerin and that I'd say that I agree w/ more & more...
" Some people try to become Christians for the wrong reasons. You do not become a Christian because you want to give Jesus a try, or because you want to see if your life gets better, or if you want to experiment with religion, or you want your life to improve, or you just want to see what happens. If you "tried" Christianity for any of these reasons, then you're probably not a Christian to begin with unless you came to a true understanding of what it is.
Become a Christian because you know that you are a sinner and that God will punish all who have sinned and you want to find salvation, the deliverance from the righteous judgment of God. The result of this salvation is that the Lord then lives in you and the result of that is your life will improve.
Don't become a Christian for the wrong reasons. Become one for the right reason, to have your sins forgiven so you can escape the damnation that will come upon all who fail to trust in Christ."
I agree that self help stuff does improve one's life. I'm sure that Choi has helped you find more balance. Sports hada a great influence on me through the yrs, it didn't however provide eternal life. It didn't bring to me the joy of followin the One True God. There was no fellowship w/ the Lord provided.
I know you'll say, "well, I'm sure a buddist would say the same thing"; and that's a valid point. But validity is not total truth, Grasshopper.
Choi doesn't provide eternal life?!
Dang brochure!
That's understandable. The thing is, I would think that people usually have some sort of starting point, and it seems that usually it's cuz they need help in some way. Like alchoholics surrendering to God for the things they can't control, or praying for an ill loved one. It seems it would stem from something and develop into a deeper meaning like you're talking about.
And I think you're fortunate in that you had a "moment". I'm guessing a lot of people couldn't pinpoint a sort of moment of clarity like that. I think most religious people are, because they think they should be. Or they don't think much more about it beyond that's it's just their general belief system, like it's a personality trait or something.
Yes, it's a personality trait :)
What you're sayn is true. Bein brought low does open one up to the possibility God. When I was saved life was pretty good tho.
"...we want gay marriage and a lot of it". LOL! That's still makin me giggle.
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